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王峰十問第25期「中英」 | PoS共識機制發明人Sunny King:穩定幣的影響被外界過度夸大

王峰十問 ·

09月21日

熱度: 75029

北京時間9月20日22點,“Mars Finance Global Family”迎來“王峰十問”第二十五期,對話嘉賓是PoS共識機制發明人Sunny King。

王峰十問第25期「中英」 | PoS共識機制發明人Sunny King:穩定幣的影響被外界過度夸大

對話時間:9月20日22點

微信社群:火星財經創始學習群

對話嘉賓Mars Finance Global Family

Sunny KingPoS機制發明人,被V神稱為“唯一一個最具原創精神的數字貨幣開發者”

王峰:火星財經發起人,藍港互動集團(HK.8267)創始人,極客幫創投合伙人,曾任金山軟件高級副總裁。

以下為對話原文整理

王峰:Hi,大家晚上好,歡迎來到火星財經“王峰十問”第二十五期。

Fred Wang:Hi,Good evening everyone,niceI am Fred.welcome to the 25th episode of Ten Questions with Fred Wang. also welcome SunnyKing

王峰:給大家介紹今晚的神秘嘉賓:PoS共識機制發明人Sunny King。關于他的公開照片,只能找到這一張,但與中本聰有些不同,我確定他確實存在,比如他能來到今天“王峰十問”的現場。

Let me introduce our Mystery Guest tonight, the creator of PoS consensus mechanism, Sunny King.?About his public photos, I can only find this one. But unlike Satoshi Nakamoto, I am sure he does exist. For instance, he came to today's "Ten questions with Fred Wang".

先來看看Sunny King的個人經歷:2011年,成立比特幣研究小組,研究比特幣替代技術;2012年,首次提出了PoS概念,并發布點點幣(PeerCoin),成為第一個通過PoS機制來實現區塊鏈共識算法的加密數字貨幣;2013年,發布質數幣(Primecoin),旨在通過計算去發掘由大量質數組成的質數鏈;2014年,點點幣全球排名第三,僅次于比特幣和萊特幣。2016年底,Sunny King最后一次在比特幣論壇更新,自此消失。2018年1月24日,隱匿1年后的Sunny King作為創始人,正式宣布推出VEE區塊鏈開發平臺,并擔任首席架構師。

First, let’s take a look at Sunny’s personal experience.In 2011, he established a bitcoin research team with a focus on alternative bitcoin technology; In 2012, he came up with the concept of PoS for the first time and released Peercoin, the first crypto currency whose consensus algorithm was achieved by PoS mechanism; in 2013, he launched a second crypto product——Primecoin in the hope of identifying prime chain consisting of large quantities of primes by computation. In 2014, Primecoin reached the third place in the world on the basis of market cap, second only to Bitcoin and Litecoin. In late 2016, Sunny King updated blogs in the Bitcoin Forum for the last time before disappearing. After being off the radar for one year, Sunny King announced the blockchain development platform——VEE On January, 24, 2018, in which he acted as its founder and chief architect.

作為加密數字貨幣領域元老級開發者,同中本聰一樣,Sunny King是這個行業里“隱藏在面具之后”另一位重磅神秘人物。快兩年杳無音訊后,今年他能重返江湖,這讓很多人翹首以待,我的很多投資界和媒體界的同行都在找他。

As a senior developer in the world of crypto currency, Sunny King, like Satoshi himself, is another mysterious and influential person behind his mask. It's been nearly two years since your last disappearance. Now Sunny are back, which excited many people, since a lot of my friends from investment and media industry are looking for him.

共識機制就是區塊鏈的靈魂,它就像一個國家的法律,維系著區塊鏈世界的正常運作。這期“王峰十問”的主題是“PoS為什么?”,Sunny發明的PoS共識機制,已經成為區塊鏈最主流的共識機制之一,至今還對整個行業產生著深刻影響。

Consensus mechanism is like the soul of blockchain and plays the role of laws in a country to keep the system functional. The PoS Sunny created has become one of the most popular consensus mechanisms in the blockchain community and still has a profound influence on the whole industry.

很榮幸今晚邀請Sunny King參與火星財經的“王峰十問”。我和Sunny從未謀面,今天也是我倆第一次進行線上互動交流。期待今晚的對話,能夠更真實地還原Sunny King,讓更多人了解神秘面具背后的他。

It’s an honor to have Sunny King with us. We’ve never met before, so this is the first time we interact and communicate online with each other. I expect our dialogue will show a more real version of Sunny and Let more people know about him behind the mysterious mask.

下面,開始我們今天的“王峰十問”吧。

Now, let’s get started.?

第一問

王峰:在區塊鏈領域,您有一個響當當的個人標簽:PoS機制發明人(Prove of Stake,股權證明機制)。PoS最早由您在2012年提出,并在Peercoin項目實現了“首秀”,引起業內極大關注。當時《比特幣雜志》的一位撰稿人評價您是“唯一一個最具原創精神的數字貨幣開發者”,這位撰稿人就是剛滿18歲的太坊創始人Vitalik,一年以后,他的以太坊白皮書問世。

王峰十問第25期「中英」 | PoS共識機制發明人Sunny King:穩定幣的影響被外界過度夸大

In the field of Blockchain, you are famous for being called the creator of POS, the Prove of Stake which was first brought forward by you in 2012 and made its debut through the Peercoin program, causing wide attention in the industry.? An editor with the Bitcoin Magazine called you the only digital currency developer with the most original spirit. This editor was Vitalik Buterin, the young founder of Ethereum the white paper of which was published one year later.

6年過去,今天區塊鏈的從業者已經對PoS機制有了普遍了解。今天,您能否借助“王峰十問”,用更加通俗的語言,親自向我們解釋一下PoS機制的工作原理嗎?中本聰開啟了分布式加密賬本的世界,Vitalik以智能合約讓區塊鏈不斷生枝發芽。在我看來,您則是區塊鏈世界的制度設計者:看到了POW共識機制的不完善,尋求改革或革命。那么,是什么啟發了您提出PoS機制?

Six years later, blockchain professionals now have commanded a general knowledge of PoS. On Ten Questions with Fred Wang today,would you mind explaining the mechanism of PoS in a simpler way for us? Satoshi Nakamoto opened a world of distributed ledger, while Buterin branched off and grew blockchain through smart contracts. As far as I am concerned, you are the designer of the rules applied to Blockchain space. Seeing PoW being defective made you sought reform or revolution. So, what inspired you to come up with the PoS mechanism???

Sunny King:通俗地說,一個弱中心化的共識系統需要一個可靠的機制來決定賦予某一個參與者的決策決定權多大權重。最樸素的做法是給每一個參與者完全相同的權重,就像現實生活中的民主選舉,但是一旦我們考慮到互聯網是一個開放并且匿名的系統,這樣的系統很容易被一些偽造的賬號/ID破壞。這就像是一些贗品,對于其他所有真誠的參與者都是非常不公平的。

OK, in easy to understand terms, a distributed consensus system needs to have a reliable mechanism to determine how much weight to give to a certain participant for the decision making power.the naive way is to give everyone equal weight, like in a democratic election,but once you consider an open system and the anonymous nature on the Internet, such system can be easily sabotaged through the faking of a lot of identities.This resembles counterfeiting, which is unfair to all the other honest participants.?

PoW機制是第一個提供了合理評估方式的系統,在這個系統中,一個參與者所獲得的權重和它所提供的特定的計算成正比。這種計算可以非常簡單地被每一個參與者驗證和評估,也被稱為“可證明的工作”,使用這種方式參與者可以簡單地向每一個人證明具體的工作量是多少。這種計算在實際操作中也可以擴展以進行任意大量級的計算。

PoW Consensus was the first system to give a reliable measure, so one’s weight is proportional to a certain computation one did. This certain computation can be verified and measured easily by everyone, thus called ‘provable work’, in that you can easily prove to everyone else how much the work was. The computation can also practically scale to take arbitrarily large amount of computation.

對比PoW, PoS共識提倡使用系統內的一個價值代幣來度量應該賦予某個參與者決策權的權重值。因此,一個參與者所擁有的代幣數量,也叫作權益,可以向其他參與者證明自己實際的貢獻量。一旦系統開始運行,就不可能任意創建或者使用快捷方式代幣。代幣的創建還必須遵循一個被稱為協議的預設規則,就像比特幣協議如何調節比特幣的創建一樣。

In comparison, PoS Consensus advocates using a value token inside the system as the proportional measure of weight assigned to a participant’s decision making power. So the amount of the token owned, called stake, proves to everyone else one’s serious contribution. The token cannot be created arbitrarily or with shortcut, once the system begins operation. The creation of the token must also follow a pre-set rules called protocol just like how Bitcoin protocol regulates the creation of bitcoin.?

王峰:與中本聰發明的另一大主流共識機制PoW(Proof of Work,工作量證明)相比,PoS在一定程度上縮短了共識的達成時間,也不再需要消耗大量能源挖礦,而且更難進行51%攻擊。但是,PoS機制也有一些問題,比如它容易出現雙重支付攻擊。早期持幣者可能會成為后來者參與的障礙,極端者則可能出現嚴重的“貧富差距”和依附其上的過度中心化。

OK., Compared with PoW, the other popular consensus mechanism, PoS shortens the time needed to reach a consensus, also lessens energy consumed to mine and increases the difficulty to conduct a 51% attack. However, PoS also has its own problems. For example, in a PoS-based blockchain system, double-spending becomes easier. Initial coin owners may cause obstacles for later participants, and in some extreme cases, wealth gap and over-centralization may occur.

毫無疑問,在今天,PoS已經與PoW一起,成為整個區塊鏈領域共識機制的兩大基石。當然了,二者孰優孰劣的爭論也一直不斷,我不確定是否已經有了定論。但我想起了丘吉爾的一句話:民主是最壞的制度,但也是現在所能找到的最好的制度。我們辯證地來看,也許沒有最好,存在即是合理,差異既是存在,能否談談您在PoS機制設計上的取和舍??

On one hand, there is no doubt that both PoS and PoW have become the foundation of consensus mechanisms in the field of blockchain. On the other hand, the argument over which one is superior is constant, and I don’t know if there was any conclusion drawn. This reminds me of a phrase by Churchill, “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” From the dialectical perspective, existence is reasonable and difference is existence. Could you please tell us your trade-offs when designing the PoS mechanism?

目前為止,每一種共識機制都可以在人類社會文明中現存治理制度找到對應源頭。比如PoW,可以理解為馬克思提出的理想社會主義的按勞分配制度;PoS很接近現代資本主義社會的公司股權治理;在這兩大治理機制之上層出不窮的共識機制里,我們也陸續能看到英國的議會制、美國聯邦制、歐盟的邦聯制以及中國的人民代表大會制度的影子。我不知道,您怎樣看待這些現象?

So far, every consensus mechanism can be traced from the governance system of existing human society. For instance, PoW can be understood as law of distribution according to work in a socialist system, while PoS is more like equity governance found in capitalism society.?From the endless consensus mechanisms originated from PoW and PoS, we can see the reflections of our current government systems in the real world, such as the Parliamentary system in Great Britain, the Federation system in the US, the Confederation in EU and China's NPC system. How do you explain this phenomenon?

似乎可以肯定的是,每一種治理機制都會有天生缺陷,數千年來,我們在解決技術和工程上的能力日新月異,但是在制度和規則設計上,似乎只有虛擬網絡游戲的社群管理在做舉步維艱的創新嘗試。有人說,人類的智慧進步不大,你是否認可這樣的觀點?

It’s almost certain that every type of government has flaws. For thousands of years, we have made great progress in terms of technology and engineering, but when it comes to creating rules and regulations, our innovative effort could only seen in the virtual internet games community management. Some people say the wisdom of mankind has not made much progress, do you agree with this point of view???

王峰十問第25期「中英」 | PoS共識機制發明人Sunny King:穩定幣的影響被外界過度夸大

PoW vs PoS

Sunny King:非常深刻的觀察。我相信這或許反映了人類文明將進入到未來的虛擬經濟中。你所提到的這些政治制度,我們曾經稱之為意識形態。在過去的一個世紀,我們看到了不同意識形態之間的巨大斗爭,而我們似乎缺乏在這種意識形態競爭中更合理、和平地合作的能力。因此,希望我們一起期許一個光明的未來,未來的虛擬世界可以提供更加和平以及公平的競技場。

Very deep observation. I believe this is a possible reflection that human civilization will be projected into the future virtual economy. All the political systems you mentioned, we used to call them ideologies. The past century we have seen huge struggles between different ideologies, we seem to lack the ability to cooperate more reasonably and peacefully in this type of ideology competition. So let’s hope for the bright side that the future virtual world may provide a more peaceful and fair play ground.

王峰十問第25期「中英」 | PoS共識機制發明人Sunny King:穩定幣的影響被外界過度夸大

的確,看起來似乎如此,特別是對于中國人來說,古老的智慧和作品仍然震驚和困惑著現代世界。但是我們確實取得了一些進展,現在我們探索的成本更低,破壞性更低。從虛擬經濟的角度來看,一切事物建立和探索的難度系數被成數量級的降低,不僅是城市和文化,還有治理系統和政治系統。

Indeed, it may seem so, especially for the Chinese, the ancient wisdom and work still amazes and perplexes the world. But we did make some progress, we have a less costly and violent path to explore now. From the virtual economy point of view, everything is orders of magnitude easier to built, and experiment, not just the cities and cultures, but also the governance systems or political systems.? ?

第二問

王峰:根據時戳資本《全球主要公鏈項目數據分析報告》數據,截至2018年7月底,市值排名在環球TOP50的公鏈項目中,1/4接納的是DPoS共識機制,代表項目是EOS、QTUM;PoW和PoS并列第二,各占18.75%,PoW的代表項目為以太坊,PoS則以ADA為代表。DPoS、PoW和PoS累計占比超過六成,已成為目前市場上的三大主流共識機制。此外,DBFT、PBFT、VBFT、LFT、PoW/PoS混合等共識機制,也紛紛嶄露頭角。對于當前共識機制百家爭鳴的局面,您有何評價?

According to the data from the Analysis Report of Global Major Public Chain Projects by Stamp Capital, by the end of July 2018, among global Top 50 public chain projects based on their market value, 25% use DPos, for example EOS and QTUMl; Projects that adopt PoW and PoS account for 18.75% each, tied as second place, their respective representatives are Ethereum and ADA. DPoS, PoW and PoS account for an accumulative of more than 60%, representing three major consensus mechanisms in the current market. Besides, other mechanisms such as DBFT、PBFT、VBFT、LFT、PoW and PoS hybrids are also coming to scene. The current scenario can be described as “a contention of hundreds of competitors”(百家爭鳴), What do you think of this current situation?

PoS對區塊鏈共識機制發展產生了深遠影響,出現了很多 PoS 的衍生版本,其中以DPoS為最主要的代表。DPoS(Delegated Proof of Stake),即委任權益證明,指的是讓每一個持幣者都可以進行投票,由此產生一定數量的代表 ,或者理解為一定數量的節點或礦池,他們彼此之間的權利是完全相等的。

PoS brings profound influence on the development of Consensus mechanism since its emergence, a lot of derivatives have been developed, of which the DPoS is a typical example. DPoS (Delegated Proof of Stake) indicates that every owner can vote to generate a quantity of representatives or a quantity of nodes and mining pools, and each of them share the same rights.

打個比方,以我國的人大代表制度來理解DPOS共識制度的涵義,當被選出來的人大代表不能再履行人民賦予他們的職責之時,他們將會被除名,而網絡將會重新選出新的代表來代替他們的位置。在您看來,DPoS究竟是PoS機制的進化,還是退化?如果最初設計Peercoin之時即有人提出DPoS而不是PoS,您會支持嗎?

For example, if we use China’s NPC system to understand DPoS’s consensus mechanism, we will find that representatives will be removed when they can no longer honor their responsibilities and the network will vote for new delegates to replace them. In your opinion, is DPoS an improved version of PoS or the other way around? If someone proposed DPoS instead of PoS when you designed the Peercoin, would you support it?

Sunny King:公平競爭可能是賦予自由市場活力的原因。所以我當然會提倡更多的競爭和可能性。這對于算法來說也是好的,這是技術如何向前發展的原因。曾經有許多人希望一個統治系統能夠結束其他全部的系統,但我想現在更明顯的是它不會發生。

Fair competition is probably what gives the free market its vitality. So of course I would advocate more competition and possibilities. For algorithms it is also good, that’s how technology moves forward. It used to be that many people wish a single dominant system to be all end all, but I guess it is now more apparent that it is not going to.

從我們的角度來看,這是這個技術的自然演變。它曾經被稱為“冷鑄造”,所以從Peercoin被創造的第一天以來就一直在被討論和探索。 PoS和DPoS之間存在重大差異,但主要要點仍然是PoS,即權益量決定了決策權的權重值。所以我不知道將它與中國的人大代表制度進行比較是否準確,中國的人大代表制度更像是一種民主,而DPoS更像是公司治理,股東(幣權所有者)可以投票給高管(鑄幣節點)。

From our point of view it’s a natual evolution of the technology. It used to be called ‘cold minting’, so it’s been discussed and explored since Peercoin’s very early days. There are major differences between PoS and DPoS, but the main gist is still PoS, that stake amount determines the weight of the decision making power. So I don’t know if it’s accurate to compare it with the NPC of China, which is more like a democracy, rather it’s more like company governance, that shareholders (stake holders) can vote out the executives (minter).

仍然是各有利弊。但對于以高性能著稱的系統,我更青睞于SPoS,它可以被視為我們的DPoS版本。

There are still pros and cons. But for a performance oriented system I would favor SPoS, which can be regarded as our version of DPoS.

王峰十問第25期「中英」 | PoS共識機制發明人Sunny King:穩定幣的影響被外界過度夸大

王峰:DPoS機制的代表項目EOS,被很多人寄希望成為繼比特幣、以太坊之后的公鏈3.0代表,但從目前發展看,可能遠不及大家預期那樣順利,您如何看待EOS的未來?無獨有偶,你和BM都有過三個區塊鏈項目的創業經歷,BM有BitShare、Steemit和EOS,你有點點幣、質數幣以及我們后面要談到的VEE,你覺得你們是一類人嗎?

EOS, a typical program that goes with DPoS, is hoped to become a representative of Public Chain 3.0 following Bitcoin and Ethereum. However, the present development suggest otherwise. How do you think of the future for EOS? The coincidence has it that both of you and BM have three prior experiences with startups. Your startups include Peercoin,Primecoin and VEE which we will talk about later, while BM’s startups include BitShare, Steemit and EOS. Do you think you and he are the same kind of person?

Sunny King:我從BitShare時代以來就認識BM了,但沒有太多機會與他互動。他的三個項目都有非常有意思的目標,所以顯然他可能位于最有能力和最有原創性的加密貨幣設計師之列。

I had known BM since his BitShare days, but did not have much opportunity to interact with him. His three projects all have very interesting goals, so obviously he is probably among the most capable and original designers of cryptos.

第三問

王峰:早在2013年,Vitalik Buterin還是《比特幣雜志》首席撰稿人時,他就和您有過交流并對您大加贊賞,稱您是“競爭幣開發者的鼻祖”。Vitalik也自詡是質數幣的粉絲,甚至公開表示,質數幣為他帶去了靈感。可是,為什么Vitalik并沒有直接選用PoS機制做為以太坊基礎的共識算法?

Back in 2013 when Vitalik Buterin was still the chief editor with Bitcoin Magazine, he spoke with you and gave you very high remarks by calling you “the originator of altcoins”.? Buterin revealed that he is a fan of primecoin and it is an inspiration for him. However, why didn’t he choose PoS as the consensus algorism of Ethereum?

Sunny King:在2013年,Peercoin的PoS技術仍未被大家深入掌握。PoS當時是一種較比特幣更復雜更改難掌握的技術。當時不太被認可,這是我能想到的一些原因。還有人說Vitalik更喜歡Primecoin的共識機制。但也可以理解,Vitalik當時的決定可能是項目組的集體意見。

Sunny King:In 2013, Peercoin’s PoS technology is still not well understood. It’s more complex to master than Bitcoin’s technology, and less agreed upon, that’s some of the reasons I can think of. It’s also said that Vitalik favored Primecoin Consensus. But it’s understandable that it’s probably a project group decision of what to use.??

王峰:有媒體報道,幾天前,Vitalik在近期的一個以太坊開發者大會上表示,采用新型共識Casper的以太坊2.0將會選擇在2019年推出。熟悉以太坊發展史的人知道,以太坊的發展共有四個階段,即Frontier(前沿)、Homestead(家園)、Metropolis(大都會)、Serenity(寧靜),前三個階段采用的是PoW共識機,第四個階段將采用自己創建的PoS機制,名為Casper投注共識,這種機制增加了懲罰機制,并基于POS的思想在記賬節點中選取驗證人。

Media reports that couple of days ago, in an Ethereum Developers Conference, Vitalik Buterin announced that Ethereum 2.0 will adopt a new consensus mechanism Casper in 2019. People who are familiar with the history of Ethereum would know that there are four stages in the development of Ethereum, the first three of which use PoW while the last will choose PoS called “Casper”, adding punishment mechanism and choosing validator from billing nodes.

“我則傾向于混合PoS,區塊仍通過PoW挖出,但區塊的最終確定通過PoS完成。”Vitalik在Twitter上這樣說。有關對Casper的解釋,Vitalik上月連續發了70多條推文。如果我說Casper=Casper PoS,你會同意嗎?

Buterin twitted,“in my opinion, I intend to favor PoS hybrid,which indicates that blocks are mined through PoW, but the final verification is done through PoS.”He twitted 70 times about Casper in the past month. If I say Casper is equivalent to Casper PoS, would you agree with me?

王峰十問第25期「中英」 | PoS共識機制發明人Sunny King:穩定幣的影響被外界過度夸大

Sunny King:是的,看到Vitalik談論PoS我很開心,這就像是在2013年的美好時光。從那時起他的表現令人驚訝。

Yeah I am always happy to see Vitalik talking about PoS, it’s like the good old days in 2013. It’s amazing what he did since then.

王峰:Vitalik創立并代言的以太坊今年以來可謂“跌跌不休”,以太幣從年初的最高點1506美元,降到9月16日的220美元,跌幅達85.4%。您怎么看以太坊大跌背后的原因?ETH市場走勢的低迷,加上新一代公鏈的不斷沖擊,以太坊能否守住自己的江湖地位?

ETH price has been constantly falling since the beginning of this year. From its peak at $1506, the second largest crypto currency has plummeted by 85.4% , closed at $220 on September 16th. What do you think are the reasons for these major falls of ETH? With its market trend and the new threats from new generation of public chain, do you think Ethereum can still hold its dominant position in this field???

Sunny King:這是加密貨幣的必經之路,哈哈。我在2011年第一次接觸比特幣,當時比特幣在40美元跌到2美元。所以作為開發人員,這是正常的。市場有自己的一套規律,我不是市場方面的專家。我只能盡力看到更遠的未來。

It’s part of the crypto experience haha. My first introduction to Bitcoin in 2011 takes me from a $40 high to $2 low. So as a developer it’s normal. The market has its own set of laws, I am not a specialist in that. I can only try my best to see farther into the long term future.

第四問

王峰:我們來說說2012年您基于PoS機制創建的第一種加密貨幣——點點幣(peercoin,簡稱PPC)。我了解到,點點幣前期采用PoW挖礦開采和分配貨幣,以保證公平;后期采用PoS機制,保障網絡安全,即擁有51%貨幣難度更大,從而防止51%攻擊,這樣精妙的機制設計,在當時無疑成為了區塊鏈具有里程碑意義的行業事件。

Let’s talk about the first crypto currency you developed based on PoS——Peercoin(PPC).? I noticed that Peercoin use PoW to mine and distribute currencies to guarantee fairness. In its later process, PoS come in to make owning 51% of currency harder, thus preventing 51% attack and keeping the network run safely. Such a delicate design was truly a milestone in the field of blockchain.

自誕生后,點點幣市值排名常年在全球數字貨幣3到4名之間,受到市場熱捧,追隨者眾多。然而,截至9月13日,點點幣的流通市值已經跌到131名,交易量也萎縮嚴重,甚至被很多交易所下架。從輝煌一時到一蹶不振,點點幣這幾年究竟發生了什么?您有沒有給它做個復盤?有網友爆料,點點幣最大的問題在于,早期爆塊收益巨大,有預挖嫌疑。是否屬實?您也可以做個正式的回應。

Since its emergence, Peercoin is ranked between the third place and the fourth place for consecutive years in terms of market value, which made it a popular product and attract a number of followers. However, as of 13, Sep, it had slipped to the 131 place with exchange volume shrinking significantly, and a lot of exchanges has removed it from their listing. What happened to the once-glorious program? Have you ever made a review? Some internet users repealed that the biggest problem of Peercoin is that its original miners made great profits which lead people to suspect the presence of pre-mining fallouts. Is that true? Will you please make a formal reply to these questions?

Sunny King:這當然是大錯特錯的謠言。2012年Peercoin是最符合道德規范的加密貨幣之一。它至少提前一周預告,并且它的挖掘與比特幣兼容,因此每個有興趣參與采礦的人都有機會從一開始就加入。

That’s of course very wrong rumor. Peercoin was among the most ethically released crypto in 2012. It was preannounced a week in advance at least, and the mining was compatible to Bitcoin, so everyone interested in participating in its mining had the opportunity to join in from the beginning.

Peercoin選擇保留PoW部分公平分配加密貨幣,即使它可能會轉向一個更像股票發行的模型,后來被稱為ICO。至于說區塊鑄造量,它被設計成一條平滑的曲線,旨在降低通貨膨脹率,就像比特幣也通過每四年減半來降低通貨膨脹率。在Peercoin成功的早期,由于某些加密貨幣愛好者缺乏安全感,他們采取了反對Peercoin聲譽的誹謗運動,這可能是那個時期的余燼。

Peercoin chose to keep the PoW component to distribute coins fairly, even though it could go to a more stock-like issuance model known as ICO later on. As to block minting amount, it’s a smooth curve designed to lower inflation rate, just like Bitcoin also lowers inflation by halving it every four years. In the early years of Peercoin’s success certain crypto fans resorted to smear campaign against Peercoin’s reputation due to their insecurity, this was probably a leftover effect from that period.

這是一個誤解,Peercoin'最初'是PoW,然后是PoS。 Peercoin的共識是一開始就是純粹的PoS,從第一天就是這么設計的。 PoW被保留用來保證幣的發行對公眾來說盡可能的公平,就像比特幣一樣,如果不是更好的話。 Peercoin的衰落更多地與加密貨幣世界的競爭格局有關。它是一個相對松散組織的社區項目,沒有投資支持。因此缺乏進一步開發的資源,更不用說任何市場營銷了。

It’s a misunderstanding that Peercoin was ‘initially’ PoW, then PoS. Peercoin’s consensus was pure PoS in the beginning, designed for its first day. PoW was kept so the issuance can be as fair as possible to the public, just like Bitcoin if not better. Peercoin’s fall has more to do with the competition landscape of the crypto world. It was run as a loosely organized community project, with no backing of investment. So it lacked resources to do further development, not to mention any marketing.?

王峰:之后,2013年7月,您帶領點點幣研發團隊又創建了質數幣(Primecoin)——一種通過搜索質數來達到其安全性的加密貨幣。質數的存在以及其分布規律,是傳統數學學科數論中非常詭異的現象,哥德巴赫猜想、黎曼猜想都是有關質數的世界級數學難題,很多難題至今都懸而未決,為什么當初設計加密數字貨幣時,你會想到用質數的概念?

王峰十問第25期「中英」 | PoS共識機制發明人Sunny King:穩定幣的影響被外界過度夸大

Riemann hypothesis

Later on July 2013, you and your team developed Primecoin, a crypto currency which provides security through searching primes. The presence of primes and its distributing laws are considered weird phenomenon in the field of traditional Math’s number theory. Goldbach conjecture and Riemann hypothesis are all too difficult to be resolved today. What makes you choose the concept of primes when designing a crypto currency?

Sunny King:Primecoin實際上是我自己創造的作品,而不是一個團隊的成果。我知道在2013年人們對PoS有很大的懷疑,所以我在想是否有其他替代方案,仍讓使用PoW和消耗能源,但是令計算更有價值?素數因其在數學中長期突出的地位而成為考慮的一個自然的目標。實際上素數是密碼學的準備工作,如果您對素數不太了解,那么您將無法學習密碼學。

Primecoin was actually my own creation, not a team effort. I know back in 2013 people had great deal of doubts in PoS, so I was wondering if there could be an alternative, still doing PoW and consuming energy, but with more meaningful computation? Prime number is a natural target of consideration due to its long standing prominence in mathematics. In fact prime number is prep work for cryptography. If you don’t know much about prime numbers, then you are going to have trouble studying cryptography.?

王峰:講實話,這確實是一個非常天才的舉動,但你當時有沒有那么一點點惡作劇的心態?為了尋找質數分布規律,德國人黎曼寫的那個復變函數中的級數求和公式的證明,多年來被數學家們苦思無解,卻在一個數字貨幣領域被一位高人玩了一把?

To be honest, it’s truly a talent work. But I wonder if you had a spirit of mischief in your mind at the time? To find out the distributing laws of primes, Riemann wrote a proof of series summation in complex analytic function, which has been researched by many mathematicians but to no avail. I didn’t expect an expert from digital currency play it so well. What are your comments to that?

Sunny King:這對我來說是一個挑戰,我花了三月份一大半的時間才意識到素數搜索的真正潛力,它可以完全取代hashcash。我欣喜若狂!你知道,對于大多數人來說,像黎曼猜想這樣的問題 - 實際上是一個關于素數分布的理論 - 遠遠超出了思維的范圍,對于我,甚至大多數數學家來說,也是這樣,只有極少數絕頂聰明的人才可能。所以我非常開心能夠盡我所能做點什么來幫助這個問題。

It was a challenge for me, it took a better part of that March for me to realize the true potential of prime searching, that it could replace hashcash entirely. I was ecstatic! You know for most people problems like Riemann hypothesis - which is actually a theory about prime number distribution - are far beyond mind’s reach, it’s the same for me, or even most mathematicians, only maybe except for a very very few top minds. So I am very happy to be able to do something, to help with what I can.

王峰:根據公開資料,自發行以來的兩個月內,質數幣發現的質數比已知基于雙向雙鏈算法的最大質數大了16倍,打破了世界紀錄,成為已知的最大質數。但叫好不叫座,和點點幣的命運相似,質數幣也經歷了由盛轉衰的過程,最新的流通市值與2013年底時差別不大,流通市值排名也從2013年TOP5降到如今的第168名,質數幣又發生了什么?

According to public files, since its issuing, Primecoin identified primes 16 times bigger than those based on two-way double-chain algorism in the first months. In spite of its good reputation, its marketing was not very well. Its latest circulating volume is close to the level of 2013, but its ranking has fallen to 168, slipped out of Top 5 in 2013, indicating it is undergoing a downside trend. What exactly happened to Primecoin??

Sunny King:與Peercoin可能是一回事。公平地說,它更多地反映了行業競爭格局的變化。

It’s probably the same thing with Peercoin. To be fair, it’s more of a reflection of the change of competition landscape in the industry.

王峰:不少人對點點幣和質數幣的“滑鐵盧”經歷唏噓不已,有人甚至評價您是上一輪熊市最著名的棄坑者。作為點點幣和質數幣的創始人,您當年為什么沒有繼續在兩個項目中參與下去,而是選擇了中途離開?離開后您把主要精力放在了哪些事情上?

Quite a few people have a problem with the waterloo of Peercoin and Primecoin. Some even call you the most notorious deserter in the last round of bear market. As the founder of Peercoin and Primecoin, why did you choose to get away in the middle of developing? After leaving, what kind of business did you focus on?

Sunny King:我沒有放棄加密貨幣。我之前一直在維護Peercoin和Primecoin并回應社區。雖然人們必須要理解它更多的是關于團隊建設,但文明是為了實現夢想而共同努力。我無法獨自完成這一切。因此,對于VEE項目,這次我們肯定要從中吸取一些教訓。

I did not desert crypto. I kept maintaining Peercoin and Primecoin and respond to community. Although one must understand it’s more about team building, civilization is about working together to achieve a dream. I cannot do it all alone. So for Project VEE this time we definitely should learn some lessons from before.

王峰:有媒體報道,曾做過您助手的Vittorini說:“King只喜歡處理技術方面的問題,而不是營銷方面或溝通方面的問題,我覺得這一直是他最大的失敗之一。”技術、營銷和溝通,哪個對您更重要?點點幣和質數幣的相似發展經歷,讓您產生過哪些更深層次的思考?

Media reports say that Vittorini, a once assistant of yours, said King prefer to resolve technological issues rather than deal with marketing or communication issues which is, from his perspective, is your biggest failure.? Technology, marketing and Communication, which one of them is more important to you? Since Peercoin and Primecoin share a lot of similarities, have them inspired you to do some deeper thinking???

Sunny King:我們當然也會考慮這些問題。營銷和溝通也同樣重要,我當然同意。這是我經常向VEE團隊強調的事情。

We also consider these questions of course. Marketing and communication is as important, I certainly agree. This is something I often stress to the VEE team.

第五問

王峰:前不久,您宣布將在項目VEE中,引入全新的共識機制“超級節點PoS”(supernode proof-of-stake,簡稱為“SPoS”)。根據您此前的解釋,SPoS有點類似DPoS,但會簡化區塊鏈的開發和維護。您發明SPoS機制的初衷是?SPoS的靈感來自于哪里?社區里有人質疑,SPoS與DPoS相比,并沒有提供新的實質性解決方案。您需要做個回應嗎?

Not long ago, you announced that VEE would adopt a full-new consensus mechanism called supernode proof-of-stake(SPoS). According to your explanation, SPoS is similar to DPoS but can reduce the development and maintenance work to a much degree. What’s your original purpose of inventing SPoS? Where does your inspiration come from? Some community members doubt that SPoS doesn’t provide effective solutions compared with DPoS, do you need to respond to these voices??

Sunny King:它與DPoS類似,因為在我們看來,這種形態是PoS共識技術的自然演變,所以總體方向就在那里。與EOS的DPoS設計相比,我認為SPoS更加優雅,具有PoS概念的簡單和純粹。

It’s similar to DPoS because in our view it’s a natural evolution of the PoS Consensus technology, so the general direction was there. Compared to EOS design of DPoS, I think SPoS is more beautiful, with simplicity and purity of PoS concept.

王峰:此外,SPoS需要運行在特殊的硬件上,這種特殊的硬件類似PoW中的ASIC礦機,但沒有那么耗電。為什么SPoS考慮引入硬件的支持?

Besides, SPoS need to operate on special hardware which are similar to ASIC mining machines but cost less power. Why did SPoS consider the adoption of hardware support?

Sunny King:這是一個誤解,沒有ASIC。 SPoS超級節點只是具有更好硬件資源的常規服務器。系統為滿足系統性能要求提供了激勵。

This is a misunderstanding. There is no ASIC. SPoS supernodes are just regular servers with better hardware resource. The system provides incentive for keeping up with system performance requirements.

王峰:我登陸VEE的官網,發現官網對VEE的定義是“第五代比特幣”(The Fifth Generation of Bitcoin),VEE使用了新的PoS機制,可為什么選擇拿PoW機制的比特幣做對比?我們又該如何理解“第五代”這個概念?

When I log In VEE’s official site, I find that the definition of VEE is “the fifth generation of Bitcoin. Since VEE uses new PoS mechanism, why does your company choose to compare it with bitcoin of PoW? How are we supposed to understand the concept of “the fifth generation”?

Sunny King:可以理解為下一代,超越第3代。這來自我們的市場策略,我認為這意味著加密貨幣或加密平臺的創建,但是說比特幣可以滿足更多人的需求。

It can be understood as next generation, the generation beyond the 3rd. It’s from our marketing and I think it means generation of cryptocurrency or crypto platform, but saying Bitcoin cater to more people I guess.

王峰:對于VEE項目,很多人提出了質疑,但最讓我印象深刻的,是來自點點幣社區和團隊的反對聲音。我了解到,點點幣社區的一些成員認為,您并沒有詳細和整個社區進行溝通,僅僅只是在論壇上發帖子是遠遠不夠的,甚至,點點幣團隊互相提醒VEE信息不透明,不要投資這個項目。以點點幣品牌經理Randy Vittorini為代表的另外一些人還警告,VEE項目不過是借您的名聲來作市場營銷。為什么您的新項目VEE卻沒有得到您過去創始項目的團隊和社區成員的支持?他們對您有什么誤解嗎?在今天火星財經的“王峰十問”,您都可以做個說明或澄清。

A lot of people has raised their doubts on VEE. The most impressive one, in my opinion, is the opposite voices from Peercoin community and development team.? Some community members think that you didn’t communicate with the whole community in detail and posting message in the forum is far from being desired. What makes the scenario even worse is that development team members warned each other of the Opacity and tried to convince others not to invest in it. Some people led by Randy Vittorini even warned that VEE is nothing but a marketing hype which made use of your reputation. Why didn’t VEE program receive support from the founding team and community members? Maybe you can clarify the misconception if any through Ten Questions with Fred Wang today.

Sunny King:Peercoin建立了自己的基金會,并在今年改進了組織,所以他們認為這個是一個獨立的項目是很正常的。我仍然與Peercoin和Primecoin社區保持良好的關系并扮演好我在團隊中的角色。我很高興Peercoin和Primecoin現在似乎都有更好的組織和發展路線圖,所以希望這可以在一定程度上緩解這兩個項目看起來沒有成功或被放棄的情緒。

Peercoin established its own foundation and improved the organization this year, so it’s normal that they view the project as separate. I still keep a good relationship with both Peercoin and Primecoin community and serve my role. I am very happy that both Peercoin and Primecoin seem to have better organization and development roadmap now, so hopefully that would somewhat alleviate the sentiment that these two projects are not successful or abandoned.

第六問

王峰:有業內人士認為,區塊鏈技術起初是由一群信仰自由主義的奧地利經濟學派學者和IT從業者發起的,由一群頂尖的程序員、黑客、數學天才,密碼專家等人建設和推動的社會實驗。

您曾經表示,自己非常推崇奧地利經濟學派。我簡單做了梳理,奧地利經濟學派的代表人物,如:卡爾·門格爾、米塞爾、哈耶克等,他們發表過的重要論點包括:價值是主觀的,是物對人的欲望滿足的重要性;價值的成因是效用加稀少性;價值量的大小也只取決于邊際效用的大小,與社會必要勞動無關等等。

您認為,在區塊鏈技術的誕生和發展過程中,奧地利經濟學派的最大貢獻體現在哪里?同理,區塊鏈行業的實踐,也推動了經濟學研究的進步,您覺得區塊鏈的產生將會為經濟學界帶來了哪些變化?

王峰十問第25期「中英」 | PoS共識機制發明人Sunny King:穩定幣的影響被外界過度夸大

some famous representatives figures of Austrian School

Some professionals believed that blockchain was first initiated by a group of Austrian School and IT participants, and considered it a social experiment conducted by the group of elites including developers, hackers, math genius, coding experts and other talented personnels.

You once said that you admired Austrian School very much. I sorted out some famous representatives figures including Carl Menger, Promisel and Hayek. Some of their published points include value is subjective and that is important in terms of satisfaction of substance to people. Value is a directly outcome of scarcity and efficiency.? The amount of value is determined by the amount of marginal utility and has nothing to do with social labor.

Sunny King:我認為我們已經想到的一件事是錢可以完全是虛擬的,起初它不一定是商品。從這個意義上講,貨幣使用本身也是有價值的。

I think one thing we have figured out is that money can be completely virtual, it needs not be a commodity at first. In that sense monetary utility is also value by itself.

王峰:我的理解,奧地利經濟學派的思想中,自由市場是王道,個體主義、主觀主義都是核心要義。然而,有人的地方就有利益,有利益的地方,就有江湖。很多人抱著暴富的心態進入到區塊鏈行業,炒幣尤其是“山寨幣”,成了“莊家們”行騙的沃土。

似乎區塊鏈打著自由的旗號構建理想化的社會系統,卻放大了人性的弱點。在尊重“人的主觀能動性”和限制“人性的弱點”之間,區塊鏈應該如何更好地實現二者的平衡?過程中,我們會遭遇怎樣的挑戰?

According to my knowledge, Austrian school economists attach great importance on a free market with individualism and subjectivism being core elements. However, where there are people, there are schemes and tricks. A lot of people dive into the blockchain industry to seek wealth overnight, which explains the reason why speculating activities are so popular in this industry, making a lot of market makers thrive on cheating on others.

It seems that blockchain highlight the vulnerabilities of human nature when it is designed to build a Utopian society in the name of freedom. How does blockchain should strike a balance between respecting human’s subjective initiative and limit human’s weakness? In this progress, what challenges will we face?

Sunny King:我認為我已經超越了必須遵從特定的意識形態或理論。更重要的是我們有選擇,所以我們可以為自己體驗世界,并以我們的方式實現錯誤。如果犧牲一些自由可以創造一個更美好的社會,你會加入這樣的社會嗎?所以,如果沒有強迫你,我不明白為什么它不能存在。根據一些美國創始人的說法,這就是政府可以合法地成立的方式。我認為這對于每個人來說都有點匪夷所思,所以我覺得,放棄冷戰時期的心態,讓不同意識形態之間更加文明的競爭,對世界來說更為重要。另一方面,允許加密貨幣實驗在世界上留有一席之地可能也符合人類的最佳利益。

I think I have grown beyond having to subscribe to a specific ideology or theory. The more important thing is that we have choices, so we can experience the world for ourselves and realize the errors in our ways. If sacrificing some freedom makes a better society, will you join such society? So if it is not forced upon you, I don’t see why it cannot exist. According to some US founding fathers, it was how governments can be legitimately founded for. These are probably tough questions for everyone I think. So I think it’s more important for the world to abandon the cold war era mentality and allow for more civilized competition between different ideologies. On the other hand, it’s probably also in humanity’s best interest to allow the crypto experiment to keep its place in the world.

王峰:今年4月份,經濟學家Saifedean Ammous在其出版的《比特幣標準(The Bitcoin Standard)》一書中,試圖論證:比特幣的根源在于奧地利經濟學原理。您是否也支持這一觀點?

王峰十問第25期「中英」 | PoS共識機制發明人Sunny King:穩定幣的影響被外界過度夸大

《The Bitcoin Standard》

In April, the economist Saifedean Ammous tried to confirm that bitcoin was an outcome of Principles of Austrian Economics in his book “The Bitcoin Standard”, do you agree with him?

Sunny King:我能說的是,我認為Satoshi絕對是一種特殊的金甲蟲,他希望貨幣供應上限!我從不知道任何一個希望停止采金業奧地利學派經濟學家。但我尊重Satoshi的意見,無論如何我們有足夠高的通貨膨脹貨幣,所以為什么不嘗試點別的呢?

What I can say is that, I think Satoshi was definitely a special kind of gold bug, he wanted the money supply capped! I don’t know of any Austrian School economist who wants gold mining stopped. But I respect Satoshi’s opinion, anyhow we have enough high inflation currencies, so why not try something else?

第七問

王峰:上周五,獲得紐約金融服務部(NYDFS)批準的Gemini Dollar(GUSD)在全球首發,GUSD是基于以太坊區塊鏈的數字貨幣,每個GUSD由1美元資產支撐。受監管的GUSD等穩定幣,成為了數字貨幣領域新入場的攪局者。基于GUSD的“政府監管背景”,它的出現會對一直飽受著內幕交易和財務狀況不透明質疑的USDT帶來多大的沖擊?進而,GUSD的出現,能否推動更多新用戶的入場?火幣創始人李林發朋友圈:穩定幣/法定數字貨幣才是區塊鏈行業最重要的基礎設施。您是否同意這種說法?

On Friday, the Gemini Dollar (GUSD), which approved by the New York Financial Services Department (NYDFS), was launched worldwide. The Gemini dollar is a cryptographic token built on the Ethereum Network according to the ERC20 standard for tokens, and has a 1:1 beg with U.S dollar. The Gemini Dollar, whcih is the world’s first regulated stablecoin, has brought huge impact to the cryptocurrency field. Based on the “government regulatory background” of GUSD, how much impact will it have on USDT, which has been questioned by insider trading and financial opacity? Furthermore, can the emergence of GUSD significantly increase new investors? Lin Li, the founder of Huobi Global, expressed in a social media network that stablecoin or legal digital currency is the most important infrastructure in the blockchain industry. Do you agree with him?

Sunny King:我認為此事有點夸大。美國曾有一段歷史,當時所有銀行都可以發行自己的紙質貨幣。所以現今的情況也類似,只是數字化的形式。真正重要的事實美國政府正在不斷開放允許發幣和加密貨幣自由兌換,而這對于VEE所倡導的未來數字經濟時代至關重要。

I think it’s a bit exaggerated. US had a period in history where every bank can issue its own banknote (paper money). So this is something similar, but in a digital twist. What’s really important is that the government is more open to allow the free exchange between fiat and crypto, which is crucial to the prosperity of future virtual economy.?

王峰:GUSD的推出,也意味著數字美元朝著合規化的方向邁出了一大步。聯想起年初以來,很多國家的法幣嚴重貶值,如:阿根廷比索貶值超50%,土耳其里拉貶值約40%,巴西雷亞爾貶值約20%,南非蘭特貶值約16%等,這些國家的人民若考慮使用GUSD,可能會免受本國貨幣劇烈貶值的煩惱。如果以GUSD為代表的數字美元,得到進一步更廣泛的認可,國家邊界的意義究竟有多大??

The launch of the GUSD also means that the digital dollar has taken a big step toward compliance. In association, since the beginning of the year, the currency of many countries has been seriously devalued. For example, Argentina's peso depreciated by more than 50%, Turkey's lira depreciated by 40%, Brazil's Real was depreciated by 20%, and South Africa's rand was depreciated by 16%. If people in these countries consider using GUSD, they may be immune to the devastating depreciation of their currencies. If the digital USD represented by GUSD gets wider recognition, what is the significance of the national border?

Sunny King:是的,這將致使我們更容易獲得美元等值資產。但同樣的,美元也并不一定會永遠強勢,法幣的價值與其發行國的經濟狀況息息相關。但我個人仍然傾向在個人風險能力承受范圍內持有一些數字貨幣,來對沖法幣的惡性通脹風險。

Yes it will make it easier to obtain USD equivalent assets. But USD may also be not strong forever. The value of fiat is really linked to the issuing country’s prosperity. I personally still favor getting at least some crypto to hedge one’s fiat hyperinflation risks, but of course within one’s own risk tolerance.

王峰:有業內人士認為,從政策和戰略的角度講,美國正在利用這次機會,在加密數字貨幣市場引入數字化美元,重新規劃美元的全球性戰略,您覺得GUSD真的是美國暗藏玄機所為嗎?區塊鏈從BTC開創的平行世界走向和現有法幣世界相交了,美國政府支持數字貨幣市場中的穩定幣,會對全球金融市場產生多大的影響??

Insiders believe that from a policy and strategic perspective, the United States is taking advantage of this opportunity to introduce digital dollars into the cryptocurrency market and re-plan the global strategy of the dollar. Do you think that the legalization of GUSD really implies the US conspiracy?? The blockchain has moved from the parallel world pioneered by BTC to the existing world of legal currency. In addition, US government finally supports USD backed stablecoin, how much impact does this have on global financial markets??

Sunny King:我不知道,可能吧。但我認為全球各國政府仍謹慎對待加密貨幣的潛力。我不清楚GUSD的細節,但穩定幣已有很長歷史了,比如此前的BitShares, Nubits。你會有多相信GUSD呢?

I don’t know, maybe. But I think governments are still wary of the potential of crypto. I don’t know the details of GUSD, but stable token had quite a bit history already, BitShares, Nubits. How much trust can you put into the peg of GUSD?

王峰:同美元掛鉤的穩定幣會逐步取代比特幣的地位嗎?

Will the USD pegged stablecoin gradually replace the position of Bitcoin?

Sunny King:當然我不相信此事。發幣固然有其自己的地位,但比特幣打開的是強健的個人財產的新世界。

Of course I don’t believe so. Fiat money certainly has its place, but Bitcoin opened up new world of strong private property.

第八問

王峰:萬向區塊鏈董事長肖風博士在最近的一次公開演講中表示,新的側鏈、子鏈、跨鏈、分層、分片、分區等技術,大部分都會在2019年實現,主網會上線;這些新技術的上線,是區塊鏈大規模商業應用的前提。2019年會是公鏈技術真正走向成熟的關鍵年嗎?公鏈技術成熟的標志是什么?

Dr. Feng Xiao, Chairman of the Board for Wanxiang Blockchain Labs, expresses at a recent public speech that technologies such as new sidechain, sub-chain, cross-chain, layering, fragmentation, partitioning will mature in 2019 and the main network will go online. This is considered a prerequisite for large-scale commercial application of blockchains. In your opinion, is 2019 a critical year for public chain technologies to mature? What are the indicators for a matured public chain technology?

王峰十問第25期「中英」 | PoS共識機制發明人Sunny King:穩定幣的影響被外界過度夸大

Sunny King:或許吧,這也是VEE忙于加入這股趨勢的原因。然而,我想這個行業將會保持進化,這項技術在未來依然有著巨大的發展空間。

Maybe, that’s why VEE has been busy positioning itself in this trend. However I think the industry will keep evolving, these technology have plenty of room to further develop in the coming years.

王峰:根據ONE.TOP LABS的數據,全球DApp總數已達1844個,日活躍用戶數達15930人,總關注量突破20萬人次。另據DAppradar網站信息,當前以太坊和EOS平臺上活躍度靠前的DApp,基本屬于去中心化交易所(DEX)以及游戲的范疇;其中,以太坊平臺上活躍度最高的DApp為IDEX,其日活用戶數為1942;EOS平臺上最為活躍的DApp是EOS Knights,其日活用戶數為886。您覺得是什么造成了DApp活躍度如此尷尬的窘境?落寞之后,DAPP將去往何方?

According to data from One Top Labs, the total number of DApps worldwide reached 1,844, and the number of daily active users reached a total of 15,930 users, while the total follow-ups exceeded 200,000 users. Furthermore, according to the information provided by the data website DAppradar, the current DApp on the Ethereum and EOS platforms are basically in the category of decentralized exchanges (DEX) and games. Among them, the most active DApp on Ethereum platform is IDEX, and the number of daily users is 1942. The most active DApp on EOS platform is EOS Knights, and the number of daily users is 886. What do you think is the reason for this awkward situation with such a low DApp activity? Where does DApp’s future lie?

Sunny King:我猜是我們被加密貨幣市場常見的高增長寵壞了。甚至加密貨幣市場都不可能哪年可以全年保持高位。

I guess we are probably spoiled by the speed of advancement in cryptos :) Even the market cannot be on a high all year any year?

王峰:從技術的角度看,區塊鏈技術規模化商業應用還需要突破哪些瓶頸?安全?信息保護?交易性能?激勵機制?區塊鏈大規模商業應用的那一天,離我們還有多久?

From a more technical angle, what are the bottlenecks for large-scale commercial application of blockchain? Is it security, information protection, performance of trading, or reward system? How long are we from large-scale commercial application of blockchain??

Sunny King:目前的瓶頸有很多,但我個人認為,相比于其他技術,其成本將是主要的障礙。那一天并不遠了。

It’s many things, but I think the cost compared to other technology is probably the main hurdle. It’s getting close.

第九問

王峰:近日,有媒體報道,美國監管機構正式批準了區塊鏈技術服務公司BitGo開展加密資產托管服務,其業務面向機構客戶。這是美國本土第一個拿到國家監管部門的合規牌照,因此備受業界關注。比特幣億萬富翁Mike Novogratz此前就曾指出,托管業務帶來的機構資金,或將能讓比特幣重現昔日的輝煌。BitGo數字貨幣托管業務的開展,會催生新一輪牛市的出現嗎?

Just recently, blockchain security startup BitGo has received regulatory approval to offer crypto asset custody service, which is aimed at the growing demand of institutional customers. BitGo has since became center of attention for it’s the first and only regulated custody service available on the market offering exclusively for digital asset storage. Billionaire bitcoin bull Mike Novogratz has previously predicted that the institutional funds brought by the custody business may enable Bitcoin to regain its former glory. Will BitGo’s custody service development reignite hope for the return of a bull market?

Sunny King:在加密貨幣世界,一切皆有可能。至今我都還記得2011年年末比特幣的低谷。所以這事誰也不好說。雖然此事是一個加密貨幣進入社會高階財富階層的信號。我們拭目以待。

In the crypto I guess anything is possible. I still remember the year end low of Bitcoin in 2011. So who knows. Though it does signal a move of crypto into the higher wealth hierarchy. Who knows, we shall see.

王峰:9月8日,V神在接受彭博社采訪時,提到“區塊鏈行業爆炸式增長將難以為繼”的觀點,隨后遭到幣安創始人趙長鵬的回懟,V神做了進一步回應:“增長是會有的,但1000倍的空間可以說很難有了。因為數字貨幣市值再翻1000倍的話,就達到200萬億美元,這幾乎是全球現有財富的70%。”趙長鵬繼續予以還擊:“我仍然堅持,數字貨幣市場會增長 1000倍甚至更多。數字貨幣達到美元所影響的市場規模時,相當于增長了1000倍;加密數字貨幣的衍生品工具市場會更大。”

V神和趙長鵬的觀點,您站在誰的一邊?數字貨幣總市值在您看來會到多大規模?區塊鏈行業爆炸式增長是否一去不復返?

On September 8th, Ethereum Founder Vitalik Buterin mentioned that “the exponential growth of blockchain industry will not sustain” during his Bloomberg interview. Buterin clarified further after Founder and CEO of Binance Changpeng Zhao twitted against his previous point: “I never said that there is ‘no room for growth’ in the crypto ecosystem. I said there is no room for ‘1000x price increases’. A 1000x price increase from today means $200T in crypto, or ~an entire 70% of today’s global wealth being in crypto.” Zhao later responded: “I still believe that the cryptocurrency ecosystem will reach or even exceed 1000x price increase. When the cryptocurrency reaches the market size affected by US dollars, it is equivalent to 1000x increase. Furthermore, the scope of application and the derivatives application of cryptocurrency will be much larger.”

Whose side will you take, Buterin or Zhao? What is the scale of cryptocurrency do you predict? Is there really “no room” for the exponential growth of cryptocurrency??

Sunny King:長期來看,我認為可能性是有的。如果對法幣來看,1000倍有可能,也許10年后法幣自身都通脹5倍了。加密貨幣并不需要膨脹到當前全球財富的70%那么高。在VEE,我們曾提到過未來的數字經濟可能會是社會主流。它占到20%的全球經濟,我覺得長線看是仍然有可能的。去想象未來世界是什么樣子著實很難,就像三十年前我們很難想到如今我們的生活是這樣子的。30年前,你能想象到現在中國是如此嗎?

Longer term, I think the possibility is always there. 1000x if measured against fiat, who knows, maybe next decade fiat could inflate 5x by itself. So it does not necessarily need to reach 70% of current world wealth. We mentioned that future virtual economy could become significant. Say 20% world economy, so I think long term it’s still possible. It’s hard to imagine the life of future world, just like 30 years ago it’s also hard to imagine the world today. Can you imagine today’s China 30 years ago?

王峰:有人把區塊鏈比作繼互聯網之后的第四次科技革命,互聯網發展歷程也成為了區塊鏈發展的一把標尺,總是被拿來比較。趙長鵬回懟V神時,就參考了互聯網巨頭發展的歷史作為論據。您認為,用過去的技術革命周期,來預測全新的區塊鏈是否還適用?互聯網是中心化信任機制,而區塊鏈是去中心化的信任機制,區塊鏈和互聯網的兩大世界,未來是會平行獨立,亦或是此消彼長,還是彼此會交錯相融?

People refer blockchain to the fourth technology revolution, and often of times use internet development to scale blockchain development. In Changpeng Zhao’s reply to Vitalik Buterin, he also used companies such as Google, Facebook, Aibnb and Uber’s developments as references. Do you think it’s reasonable to use technological revolution cycle to judge and predict blockchain? Internet is a system of centralization, but blockchain is decentralized. Between these two technologies, will they grow independently, one over another or together?

Sunny King:科技進化的周期現在越來越快。世界上有如此多高學歷的人們一直在解決技術挑戰性難題。從云、人工智能的發展就看得出來,越來越快。

但我非常認同中心化和去中心化系統,在可預見未來的平行空間中可以共存。而中心化系統目前仍然是有其效率上的優越性。

The cycle seems evolving ever faster now. The world has so many more highly educated population to tackle on technical challenging problems. See the development of cloud, AI, it seems moving at ever faster paces.

But I do agree that centralized and decentralized system will coexist in parallel for the foreseeable future. Centralized systems still have its efficiency advantage.?

第十問

王峰:“比特幣之父”中本聰的真實身份,一直撲朔迷離,和中本聰一樣,Sunny King是您的筆名,您也從未在公開場合露面。同樣是加密數字貨幣領域圈中的傳奇匿名人物,您怎么看待神秘未知的中本聰?您打算和中本聰一樣繼續玩消失或者匿名嗎?你們的世界我們確實不懂。

Founder of bitcoin, Satoshi Nakamoto ‘s real identity has remained a mystery. Very similar to Nakamoto, Sunny King is your pen name and you’ve never appeared publicly. Also as a legend and an anonymous figure in cryptocurrency space, what do you think of Satoshi Nakamoto? Do you plan on remaining anonymous? Common folks might not understand the world you are in.

Sunny King:中本聰可能是真正的“匿名人物”,而我的匿名只是因為目前的隱私考慮。

Satoshi maybe truly anonymous, for me it’s just for privacy reasons now.

王峰:在2014年之前的一次采訪中,您曾坦言,考慮到政治因素,不愿意透露自身隱私。我想,似乎現實的政治環境對您存在著不可預見的巨大風險。然而,5年多過去了,很多國家對加密數字貨幣表示積極友好的姿態:2017年,澳大利亞證監會允許投資者用比特幣購買上市公司股票;2018年2月,委內瑞拉成為全球首個發行法定數字貨幣的主權國家;8月,馬耳他成為世界上第一個為區塊鏈、加密貨幣提供官方法規的國家。面對更加寬松的政治環境,您還要繼續神秘下去嗎?你打算什么時候摘掉臉上的面具?

In an interview in 2014, you spoke frankly the reason for anonymity was due to political factors. My understanding is that the current political environment has unforeseeable risks to you. However, after five years, many countries have shown positive attitude toward cryptocurrency. For example, in 2017, the Australian Securities Regulatory Commission opened policies for investors to buy shares in listed companies in Bitcoin last year. Venezuela became the first country in the world to issue legal digital currency by releasing a white paper on petroleum coins in February 2018. In August, Malta became the first nation to offer official government regulation and policies for blockchain and cryptocurrency. Do you think you will remain anonymous with an easier political environment? In what particular circumstance, will you take off the mask and face the public?

Sunny King:我知道大家都對此很好奇,但說真的我其實是和大家一樣的普通人。

I know everyone has curiosity, but really I am just an ordinary person just like everyone else.

王峰:我留意到,您在2014 年接受《Let’s Talk Bitcoin》線上采訪被問及喜歡什么食物時,您的回答是:中國點心怎么樣?在比特幣社群中,有人說您是北大數學系畢業的中國人?您的創始團隊幾乎是清一色北大畢業生,也讓我相信這些猜想正確是大概率事件。

I’ve noticed during an online interview with Let’s Talk Bitcoin in 2014, you answered Chinese Dim Sum when asked what your favorite food was. In the bitcoin community, someone said you are Chinese and graduated with Math major from Beijing University? It’s a natural guess of probability since your founding team is composed mainly of graduates from Beijing University.?

Sunny King:其實有很多人知道我的身份。不過為何我們不保持一點樂趣呢?

Actually there are plenty people who knows my identity. But why not keep some fun still.

王峰:您網絡頭像是位漫畫人物,它是日本游戲公司KONAMI 2002年發行的游戲《幻想水滸傳3》的角色“炎之英雄”。游戲世界中,“炎之英雄”作為盜賊團的首領,從起初劫持向神圣帝國的貢品,返還民眾,到后來對抗神圣帝國爭取獨立,直到神圣帝國退兵,而“炎之英雄”從此徹底消失。您使用“炎之英雄”網絡頭像的現實寓意是?

王峰十問第25期「中英」 | PoS共識機制發明人Sunny King:穩定幣的影響被外界過度夸大

A? character of Genso Suikoden

Your network avatar is a comic character “Flame Champion” from the video game Suikoden III by a Japanese gaming company KONAMI. In the game, “Flame Champion” leads a group of bandits rob from the holy empire and return the wealth back to the commoners until he wins independency from fighting the empire and then disappears once for all. What is the real meaning behind using the comic character “Flame Champion” for your network avatar?

Sunny King:不知你信不信我,其實這是巧合。我當時不知道這個圖片是什么,只是隨手網上找來用的。不過現在我知道圖片是來源于中國500年前的名著水滸傳。有人說水滸傳的作者用的也是筆名,所以你看,匿名的傳統來源于中國的歷史。

我覺得真正重要的是我們保持一個開放的思維,誰知道技術的發展會將人類引向何處,也許是更加光明的未來。就像水滸傳作者當年記錄當時的群英的事跡一樣,也許500年后的人們會稱道我們現在竭盡所能為了科技讓人類更美好所做的一切。

It’s actually a coincidence, I don’t know if you will believe me or not :) I wasn’t aware of what the picture was about, but somehow I picked it up on the Internet. It’s about a famous novel of China from probably 500 years ago, I get it now. Some speculated the author’s name is also his pen name, so you see, the anonymous tradition goes way back in the Chinese history?

I think what’s really important is that we keep an open mind, who knows what the technology development would lead humanity to, maybe it’s a much brighter future. It would be good enough that 500 years from now people could say that we did what we could to the best of our abilities, just like the author of the famous Chinese novel did.

王峰:聊了一晚上,我突然意識到一個很嚴重的問題,既然Sunny King從來沒有露過真面目,我們怎么知道網絡那頭的你,真的是Sunny King本尊呢?你怎么證明你就是Sunny King呢?哈哈,這或許是個根本無解的問題。如今,區塊鏈依靠去中心化、匿名性等特質,給了我們打開自由大門的一把金鑰匙。我想,無論是PoS機制,還是SPoS機制,都蘊含了自由主義和精神,通過建立不同類型的信任網絡以實現資源的最優配置。希望Sunny King這次攜手VEE歸來,帶給我們更多可能,去探索區塊鏈自由世界的未來。

After chatting for the entire night, I just realized a critical issue. If Sunny King never revealed his true identity, how do we know that the network avatar is you, the real Sunny King? How do you prove you are in fact the real Sunny King? I guess that question remains unsolved.

Nowadays, blockchain has provided us a key to the door of freedom with a variety of features including decentralization and anonymity. As far as I am concerned, freedom is the top priority for whatever mechanisms under discussion—whether they are PoS or SPoS, then comes the optimal allocation of resources.

王峰:最后,我想引用奧地利經濟學派的先驅、經濟學家Frédéric Bastiat(弗雷德里克·巴斯夏)曾經說過的一句話:“無論我們在討論宗教、哲學、政治或經濟;無論它是有關繁榮、道德、平等、正確、正義、進步;無論是從哪個科學方法加以研究,我最后都會達成以下結論:解決所有人類互動問題的答案,便是自由。”

Finally ,I’d like to conclude this show with a quote of Frédéric Bastiat, a pioneer of Austrian School of Economics and famous economist, ” It seems to me that this is theoretically right, for whatever the question under discussion — whether religious, philosophical, political, or economic; whether it concerns prosperity, morality, equality, right, justice, progress— at whatever point on the scientific horizon I begin my researches, I invariably reach this one conclusion: The solution to the problems of human relationships is to be found in liberty.”

王峰:再次謝謝Sunny,感謝您今天能做客火星財經的“王峰十問”,謝謝朋友們!

Thank Sunny again for joining Ten Questions with Fred Wang. Thanks, every friend!


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